Paul Clark. Paul, come on over this way. Come to my living room, Paul. Come on. Hang out. Paul was just in Atlanta, playing-- Atlanta Fest, was it called?

Uh-huh.

And he was telling me about the bands that were playing there, like Third Day and Jars of Clay, and they were saying to him that when they were in third grade, they used to listen to his albums, which made him feel very young at heart.

Wheelchair parking.

[LAUGHS] History Channel. Paulosaurus.

I am on the History Channel. It's all right.

Paul, as we talk, we're going to show some sort of a running slide show of you. Some pictures of your life. They go way, way back. Look at that one. Is that really you?

That was-- that's not that long ago. That was just in the '80s. [LAUGHS]

Only 20 years ago.

That was 1982. 1982, yeah.

This is like living room slide show, here.

Vintage year. I remember the vacation we went on. We-- no.

I'm sure-- I'm going to talk to you and ask you some questions, but I'm sure I'll be distracted by some of these pictures we're seeing. But yeah, look at that one.

Now, that's a little older.

How old were you?

That's 1970. I was 18 there.

And what year was that?

1970.

So how old are you now?

37.

[LAUGHTER]

No, 38. It's 38 this August.

Paul, you and I have been friends for quite some time.

39 years.

In, fact how long?

39 years. I'm 38, and we met-- no, I'm just kidding. I'm sorry. I'm messing you up here.

You know, when you've got your buddy up here, it's hard to just get serious, but.

I did get the memo to wear the Skip Heitzig outfit. You know, the blue jeans, the black shirt.

Look at it. I noticed that. Look at this.

I got rid of my bowling shoes and actually put some shoes shoes on. Even though we're going bowling afterwards.

In fact, wait a minute. This go a step further. I noticed that a lot of the people in the band-- did you notice? Have--

Well, I sent the memo on to them. Because that's what you do.

We all look like bruises, black and blue. All of us tonight. I don't know what the deal is. You and I have been in Israel a couple of times together, and we stood in the very valley that we're going to read about tonight, the Valley of Elah, where David slew Goliath. And we look at that historically, but there's a lot of ways we could look at it metaphorically as well.

In other words, we all face huge, what we would say gigantic, obstacles, problems, issues. Everybody does. And you've had your share of them. In fact, a lot of your music has been birthed out of not happy circumstances, but very trying ones, where the Lord has given you songs in the night.

Absolutely. It's funny because I'll meet people, and they'll all say, wow, you're so happy. Your music is so depressing. But I do like writing songs. I like mining for songs. And happiness and joy comes from the Lord as well.

But I seem to be a sacrificial lamb for suffering and going through certain things, and I've learned a lot about that. And giants, they build character. And that's all I can really say to that, except for the fact that there's so many things I know you want to ask me. But there's so many things that tonight, that I hope we don't do just an interview or let's just fill some space. We're doing the online thing, but my goal is to be transparent and to share. I've been walking in Christ for 32 years.

By the way, is this you, or is this you with Charles Manson? What is this?

That was-- that's me and Charles Manson's little brother, Phil Manson [INAUDIBLE]. That was 1970-- wow, that's scary.

[LAUGHS] It is.

Those guys ought to be arrested. That was 1972. Plaid was very in, and now it's back. And that's when you know you're recycling, when everybody-- I remember getting kicked out of restaurants for having a beard and long hair, and now you go in the country, and they all have long hair and beards. So that's all right, though. 1972.

OK. I'm sorry. I was distracted with the picture.

I would be distracted with that, too. I didn't see it. I may throw up in a minute. But it's all right. So anyway, I just like to think of-- there's a line out of, actually, a movie, which may sound sort of carnal, but it was a baseball movie called The Natural.

There's a point in the movie near the end where Robert Redford is still looking for significance in baseball, and Glenn Close, his first and true love, says to him something along the lines of this. She says, Roy, I believe we live two lives, the one we learn from and the one we live from.

And I think that's the way the Christian life really is. If you're fooling yourself, if you think that you can just live one life. Because David, who we're going to study about tonight, believe me, the one shot he fired at Goliath was not his first stone he threw. I bet you he missed a lot. I bet you he lost a lot of sheep out in that field when he was a young teenager, and he failed a lot. But that's how I learned how to succeed, was through failure. And I think that's a powerful point.

You know, Paul, before the service tonight, we were talking about several different-- what we were calling giants. And one of them was a period of depression in your life. And we talked about that being brought on by a lot of things. You can't just say it was because I was carnal, or it was because it was a physiological condition. In your case, it was a lot of stuff, wasn't it? I mean, you were juggling a lot of activities. Tell us about that.

Yeah. Actually, I like to call it accumulated stress. A lot of it was brought on by my lifestyle of traveling. My body doesn't really have a clock in it. I travel all around the world. But then some of it was brought about by my own foolishness, poor decisions, and sin. And I don't pass over that lightly. I mean, sin has consequences. I didn't like rob a bank or murder anybody, but just out of God's will. And that's all that needs to be said about that.

And then some of it was physical. I had three chunks in my L4, L5 area in my back that was giving me a lot of trouble, and I'd drug a bag, with a bad back, around for a long time. And I was also real active physically, on a bike racing team and in great shape and all that stuff.

And all of a sudden, I found myself flat on my back for four months. My body just didn't know what to do. And I got depressed. I mean, it's true. I don't mind saying that. But I was just down.

In fact, really, I don't want to toot Skip's horn, but the word Skip Heitzig used to mean a lot to me. And it still means a lot to me now.

I was going to say, now--

It doesn't mean anything anymore. It just means an interview. But I was in a hospital in Tucson and totally out of it. I mean, they had me so medicated, I didn't know where I even was, to be honest. But he would call every day. And just, I'd hear those words, and they gave me hope.

And I would boast-- boasting to Skip, I'm making a boast in the Lord that sometimes you're gone. I mean, you're just out. You're checked out. And you're paralyzed. You don't have any way to get out.

And I'd love to say that when I was going through that period of depression, that I prayed a prayer, I read a scripture, or whatever, and that changed everything. Really, to be honest with you, when I read my Bible, it was like reading The Wall Street Journal. My praying was like facing a wall.

I couldn't get anything out of something I had relied upon for so long. And it's progressive. It was a mystery. I really don't have the answers even today.

But I can tell you this, that I believe there's power in that mystery. And the positive side of the power, I believe, is that God uses that, I believe, to keep drawing passion out of us. That's what keeps the romance alive is passion. And I believe God has that same heat-seeking missile for us.

If we're in control, we don't need that passion. But you know what? All I had was the Lord. I mean, I'm not saying the Word didn't have power anymore. I'm not saying that prayer doesn't have power. But He was-- I believe-- drawing me to Him. To just look at Him and to listen to Him and be with Him.

Paul, during that time, what was your biggest fear? If you were to say it was one thing, was there one thing that was your biggest fear during that dark moment?

I remember grabbing my bass player, who came to visit me, by the shirt lapels and lifting him off the ground, up there against the wall, and saying, is this it? Is everybody afraid to tell me that I've blown a fuse, and I'm not going to get any better, and this is as good as it gets, and I need to adjust to this?

And he was like, I don't know, man. I don't know. I'm not a doctor. I'm just your bass player. You remember me? I'm Don. And have like-- [LAUGHS]

And just I thought it was over. I mean, and it was just about over. Actually, I had a lot of toxic blood poisoning things. Things were going medically-- I mean they really were bad. And I was in a dangerous place.

But the biggest thing I feared was not dying. Because I wasn't afraid of death. But I was afraid of not finishing strong. And that was the thing that always drives me, really. It was just to finish strong. I didn't want to finish in a hospital. Just think, that's my life. It's over. I mean, I couldn't settle for that.

And you touched on something. I just want you to expand on it. Because a lot of people think there should be this instant healing thing instead of this process. Truth is, Christianity is growth. We're always in a process of growing.

That wasn't the only giant I ever faced in my life. There will be giant to giant to giant. And I think as well, where you're in a wrestling match, a wrestling match is not against flesh and blood. That's a factor. We've got to arm ourselves.

The story you're going to read tonight, I don't know what you're going to say about it. But one of the most beautiful passages of scripture is the fact that David ran out to meet Goliath. And how many of us run to go head off trouble?

But the thing is, once again, I believe he learned that in the field. When he saw the wolf coming to herd his sheep, he ran out to cut them off before they got too close. And so many of us wait until it's in our camp, and it's all over us. And then it's not too late, but becomes so much more difficult.

So I would like to encourage you tonight to gird up your loins and run-- if you smell the enemy, run after him. Don't let him chase you. Don't let him stand there and go, hey, who are you, you little punk? I mean, go after him. You have name the name of the Lord.

Paul, well, you have so many songs. You were trying to pick out, in fact, which ones. Because you could go on and on. Because so much of your music, as I said, was birthed out of such deep circumstances. But tell us about the song you're going to sing. Set it up for us and then sing for us.

Well, just what I was talking about. About finishing strong. We live in a time where there's so much static in the air. There's so many things being said. There are so many remedies. There is so much information, that in a sense, it anesthetizes us and even paralyzes us from hearing clearly.

And I think as a Christian, if I could just have your heart for a second and have your ears is the fact that, like I said a minute ago, was that we look for the textbook answer. We look for the prescription. They're written out, and take two of these and call me in the morning. You'll be all right. That's not the Christian life.

The Christian life is not-- in fact, I like to call the Christian life "the day the Cleavers died." Because the truth is I'm more of a lumpy Rutherford and little bit of Eddie Haskell thrown in. I mean, all of us, we have our little Eddie Haskell.

If you watched Leave It to Beaver, he's the guy that always comes in, good morning Mr. and Mrs. Cleaver. My, that's a lovely yellow dress you have. Did you buy that at Frederick's? Whatever, you know? So he's always just-- he's always saying the wrong thing at the wrong time, trying to butter up and look good.

And you know what? We're like that with the Lord. Why is it, we're in danger, we try to say all these flowery things, when the truth is, we're broken people. But we serve a whole God.

And I just want to encourage you tonight that although the voices of the world will try to beat you down, although your circumstances-- believe me, I'm going through some circumstances right now that are horrific. And they're natural. It's devastating. A loss. A huge loss. And I don't have time to get into it tonight, but it's a huge loss.

But I can tell you this. The joy of the Lord is stronger than that. The reality of Jesus Christ is so much more powerful than that. And He will see you through. It is progressive a lot of times. We want to get out of the drive-through lane and go inside and dine. That's where I see it.

So like I said, run out and meet it. Don't be afraid of it. Don't be afraid of fear. Fear, it has torment. But perfect love casts out all fear. Perfect love. And only He has perfect love. You do not.

We're distributors, friends. I'll end right there, or I'll start preaching. Yeah. We're distributors, not manufacturers. There's nothing-- I can't manufacture a song tonight, and Skip can't manufacture a Bible study. In His own strength, it's going to have an eternal impact on your life. But we are distributors of His grace and His mercy and His love for you. Amen.

Amen.

Pablo Clark.

Let's not make the mistake of changing the story of David and Goliath into a fairy tale. This is a record of true events. Imagine what David experienced as he took his steps of faith into the Valley of Elah.

When I watched my father's sheep, I faced a lion and a bear, and now this. This giant Goliath. It was really something. He was mean, and he was big.

Saul tried to put his armor on me, but I could barely move. So I went into the valley with just a staff, a sling, and some stones. That was enough. Because as everyone saw, and now everyone knows, the Lord was my shepherd.

You will never face anyone like Goliath, but there are giants in each of our lives. How is God preparing you today for the Giants you will face tomorrow? What weapons are depending on in your battles? And who gets the credit for your victories? These are some of the lessons and principles we'll find in the life of David.

All right. Let's open to First Samuel chapter 17, tonight. A couple of weeks ago, I was in Florence, Italy. And one of the highlights of that city is a statue that was cut out by Michelangelo. And it's called David. It's his famous work.

There's a great story behind it, actually. It seems that a stone was quarried out of the great quarry in Carrara, Italy. White marble. It was shipped to Florence to be used for one of the great sculptors.

Raphael, who is also from that city, looked at the stone, but because of the flaws in it, rejected it. Another artists looked at it, rejected it. So it sat in the courtyard of the church for years.

Michelangelo came by one day, saw this huge block of marble. Noted there were flaws in it, cracks in it. But he made a statement. He said, there is an angel trapped inside of it, and I'm going to set it free.

That is, Michelangelo looked at a flawed piece of rock, and he saw potential. He didn't see it for what it was, but really what it could become. And I think that is actually a great story for the life of David.

God looked at David, who was a man after His heart. He was overlooked by his brothers. He was overlooked by his father. He was overlooked by a prophet. But God saw what he could become.

Now, this statue in Florence is interesting because it sort of looks more like Goliath, I think, than David. It's about 30 feet tall. So you look way up at it. It's enormous. It speaks of great, brutal strength.

David, of course, was just a little shepherd boy that God got a hold of. Now, you've all heard of this story. Everybody's heard of the story of David and Goliath. That's what launched David into public acclaim. It ranks right up there with Jonah and the whale in some people's minds. They relegate it to being mythological rather than literal.

There's a lot of people-- you've spoken to them. They said, yeah, I like the Bible. It's a great little book to read and all, but you know, some of those stories, of course, you can't really believe. You don't believe the story of David and Goliath, this huge monster of a person, do you? Or the fact that a whale swallowed Jonah literally, do you? Et cetera, et cetera.

Now, what's funny about that is some of the same intellectual people, I see them at the store buying National Enquirer. They'll stand in line and argue with me about the Bible, but they'll pick up the National Enquirer. Have you ever read the headlines of those things?

You know, it's entertaining just to stand in line and just note what's on the headlines of some of these magazines. One observer put a little list together of the headlines on the tabloid magazines in a grocery store. Here's one. "Cow mattresses help cows produce more milk." Got to buy that one.

Here's another one. "Mom to be, on diet of only chicken, lays huge egg." All right? "World War II bomber found on the moon." Oh, you read that one. I noticed that you're going, so?

Here's another one. "Woman gives birth to two-year-old baby. Child walks and talks in three days." And I like this one. I saw this one. "Adam and Eve's bones found in Asia. Eve was a space alien." Well, we knew that.

The story of chapter 17 is a story about perspective. It shows you the difference between the perspective of faith and the perspective of fear. The perspective of optimism in a great God, trust in a great God, versus pessimism because of a great enemy, a giant named Goliath and all of the Philistines that were arrayed against the children of Israel.

Now, you remember another story that's similar to this. Back in the Book of Numbers, chapter 13, there were 12 spies sent out into the land by Moses. 10 of them gave a bad report, that is, a report where it was not of faith. They didn't want to go in.

Only two, Joshua and Caleb, gave what is called a good report. In other words, let's go for it. We can go in. We can conquer the land. But the 10 said, we can't do it. There's giants in the land. We're grasshoppers in their sight, and we are like grasshoppers in our own sight.

But Joshua and Caleb, the Bible tells us, had a different spirit within them. They listened, and they saw God more than the giants. You know, perspective makes a big difference. You can look at a glass and say it's half empty, or you can say it's half full.

And there's some people that have a proclivity toward it's always half empty. And I'll always say, well, it's half full. You may have heard the story of the three gentlemen that went to the Grand Canyon. All of them had different perspectives on that whole.

One was an artist, one was a pastor, and one was a cowboy. The artist was from Italy, and he said, [ITALIAN]. What a beautiful, inspiring scene at the painting. The pastor looked at it and said, what a magnificent testimony of the majesty of God. The cowboy looked at it, chewing his tobacco, and said, what a terrible place to lose a cow.

They all saw the same thing. Of course, they reacted differently to it. So it was with Saul and David. What Saul noticed, though they saw the same thing, and what David noticed were two entirely different sets of ideas and beliefs, value systems.

There's a little poem that goes along with this that I heard once. It says, two men looked out from prison bars. One saw mud, one saw stars. And I would adapt that poem to this and say, two men looked in the valley one day. One saw a giant, the other saw his prey.

To Saul, this was a formidable enemy. We can't fight this guy. To David, who are you to defy the living God? The perspective of fear versus the perspective of faith. Now, the chapter opens in a battle. That's what the first few verses do. They set up for you where a battle with the Philistines has taken place in a place called Sochoh. In Ephes Dammim, in a valley called the Valley of Elah, in southern Judah is where it takes place.

Now, something you notice about the children of Israel. God gave them, we call it, the promised land, right? The Land flowing with milk and honey? But I don't know if you picked up on this, but ever since they entered the land of promise, they're fighting. There's battles. There's enemies. They're plagued with these peoples who are always at their heels. In all of the 23 years of King Saul, there has been fighting every turn of the page.

Now, I don't want you to miss that because I think that is also metaphorical of the Christian life. A lot of us would like to say, well, when I become a Christian, it's just smooth. Man, the road smooths out. There's no bumps in it. There's no obstacles in it.

No. That's when the battle begins, right? Because now you become a target for the devil. You can't step into God's plan and have hell give you a standing ovation. You're now a target. In fact, David's problems begin here after he is anointed, not before.

Before he's anointed, we left off where he's in the gentle pasture lands of Bethlehem, out with the sheep, singing to the Lord, having a great life. And then the anointing oil covers him. We sing, pour your anointing oil on me. Do you know what that means when you sing that? You are stepping into an arena to be used by God, empowered by God.

And that sounds awfully exciting, but there are battles to be fought. Because at this point, David faces Goliath. David faces the antagonism of his brothers in this chapter. And David will face years of being hounded by King Saul, the one who is on the throne.

I had an assistant pastor a few years ago, who, I think it was his first week, and he came to me at the end of the first week and said, man. He sort of recalled all of the events of the week, how bad it had gone, and the people that came in for counseling, and then that somebody died. And he just went on and on.

And I just put my arm around him and hugged him and said, welcome to the ministry. This is what it's all about. It starts now. Let's pick it up in verse three. I set it up for you. It's in the Valley of Elah.

And let's take a look at the problem. This is David's problem. His name is Goliath. The Philistines stood on a mountain on one side, and Israel stood on a mountain on the other side, with a valley in between them. And a champion went out from the camp of the Philistines, named Goliath from Gath, whose height was six cubits and a span between 8 and 1/2 and a little over nine feet tall, depending on which cubit measurement you're into.

He had a bronze helmet on his head. He was armed with a coat of mail. He wasn't a mailman. That was his protection. That's what it means. And the weight of his coat was 5,000 shekels of bronze.

He had a bronze armor on his legs, a bronze javelin between his shoulders. The staff of his spear was like a weaver's beam, and his iron spearhead weighed 600 shekels. And a shield-bearer went before him.

Then he stood and cried out to the armies of Israel and said to them, why have you come out to line up for the battle? Am I not a Philistine and you the servants of Saul? Choose a man for yourselves and let him come down to me. If he's able to fight with me and kill me, then we will be your servants. But if I prevail against him and kill him, then you shall be our servants and serve us.

And the Philistines said, I defy the armies of Israel this day. Give me a man that we may fight together. When Saul and all of Israel heard these words of the Philistines, they were dismayed and greatly afraid.

Goliath was a different kind of soldier. It was pretty easy to pick up on that. He was big. He was annoying. obnoxious, loud. And he was a giant. He was a giant. You remember back, as I mentioned, in the Book of Numbers, when those 10 spies noted that there were giants in the land? They called them the Sons of Anak, or Anakim is the plural of Hebrew.

Now they were taken out of Israel, wherever Israel dwelled, but they ended up in a certain territory. In Joshua, chapter 11, let me quote this scripture to you. You'll understand what's happening.

None of the Anakim were left in the land of the children of Israel. They remained only in Gaza, in Gath-- that's where this is taking place. He's from Gath. And in Ashdod.

In other words, one of the descendants of these giants who were in the land from years before, 400 years before, are still in the area where the Philistines occupy, and this one hires himself out as a mercenary to the Philistines as a formidable champion. The word means a man in-between. That is, he's going to stand in the valley in between one army and the next army and be the representative for the army of the Philistines.

Now, we know that this guy's pretty tall, between 8 and 1/2 and 9 and 1/2 feet tall. So think of the basketball team that he would bless if this guy were around today. Can you imagine the shoe size on Goliath? I don't know what it was. 30 or something.

I wear 13. I'm 6' 5", but a guy that's 8 and 1/2, 9 feet tall, wow. His armor weighed 125 pounds. The head of his javelin weighed about 20 pounds. A 20-pound spearhead connected to his spear post.

Some think that this is mythological. People aren't that big, they say. That's not true. Actually, we have in our recent history a record of a guy who was born in Alton, Illinois back in 1918 by the name of Robert Wadlow. And he has been called the tallest man who ever lived. When he was born, he was a little over 8 pounds.

When he was 13 years old, the guy was already 7 feet 8 inches tall. Imagine your 13-year-old at 7' 8", moms. Mom, I'm going out to play. Sure, son. You want the car keys? He's a big boy.

He died at 8 foot 11 inches tall. And when he died, his casket, well over 10 feet long, was carried by 12 people to the grave. Big guy. That's just back in 1918.

Now, let me give you a little geography, here. There is a valley, the Valley of Elah, which is about a mile across. It's this long valley with two sloping hills, where an army would be on one side, and an army would be on the other side, and they would come down the hill and shout across the gully, hoping the other enemy would attack first. Because whoever attacks first has to go up the hill. It's an uphill battle all the way.

Well, Goliath will step out from the battle line and walk over in the middle of the valley and say to the children of Israel, why are you lining up? What's this battle array for? I've got a better idea. Instead of battle army against army, let's do it one on one. Look at verse eight.

He stood and he cried out to the armies of Israel, and he said, why have you come out to line up for battle? Am I not a Philistine, and you are the servants of Saul? Choose a man for yourselves. Let him come down-- that is off of your slope-- to me.

Imagine if you're in the army of the children of Israel, how intimidating it's going to be to hear this guy. Because he didn't do it once. He does it twice a day for 40 days. 80 times you're hearing this. It's going to wear on you.

Look down at verse 16, and you'll see where that is. I'm going to be jumping around a little bit to cover all these verses and get the most out of it. The Philistine drew near and presented himself for 40 days, morning and evening. Imagine being taunted by this huge, weird tall guy for 80 times, morning and evening.

It was intimidating. It was meant to intimidate. It was meant to erode the morale. And it worked. It really worked. Because verse 11, we just read, when Saul and all of Israel heard the words of the Philistine, they were dismayed and greatly afraid.

If you have ever worked in a group environment, like in a business office or in the military or in athletics, where there has to be a team unity and a team spirit, you know that pessimism can ruin morale quickly. And so it's usually kept in check. Come on, man. Have a good attitude. We're going to win this game, aren't we? Yeah! You want to get everybody pumped up.

Well, hearing this guy day in and day out is wearing on Saul. Wearing on the troops. It is meant to erode their morale, and it's working. Now, go down to verse 23. Skip to that verse. Because this guy's aggressive. I want you to notice his tactic.

In verse eight, he leaves his line and goes out to the middle of the valley and calls across the valley on that slope to the children of Israel. But now, verse 23, then as he talked with them, there was the champion, the Philistine of Gath, Goliath by name. Now, this is David having a conversation with his brothers and the children of Israel.

There was the champion, the Philistine of Gath, Goliath by name, coming up-- notice that-- from the armies of the Philistines, and he spoke according to the same words. And so David heard them. And all the men of Israel, when they saw the man, fled from him and were dreadfully afraid.

So the men of Israel said, have you seen this man who has come up? Surely he has come up to defy Israel, and it shall be that the man who kills him, the king will enrich with great riches, give him his daughter, and give his father's house exemption from taxes in Israel. See, Goliath was down in the valley shouting. Now he's starting to come up the slope on the other side, where the children of Israel are. And now they're a little bit even more worried.

You see the guy who's coming up? He's come up to defy us now. He's not just down in the valley. He's advancing. He's aggressive.

Now, this is so much like our adversary, the devil, who tries to be intimidating. Who tries to be defiant. And whose attacks are incessant. Right? He didn't give up. In fact, he has studied us enough to find the weakest moment.

We often talk about Jesus being tempted in the wilderness and how He fought that temptation successfully with the word of God and gave him the promises of scriptures. Then the devil left Him, and we applaud. But we don't read the rest of it. Here's the rest of it.

It says, now, when the devil had ended every temptation, he departed from Him until he had an opportune time. That's what he waits for. He keeps at it, and he's incessant, and he will be aggressive. And if Satan's challenges go unmet, those attacks become worse and stronger than ever.

A guy by the name of Frances Thompson said, the devil doesn't know how to sing. He only knows how to howl. And when we hear him howling, we get very intimidated.

Some of us face giants-- let me just give you a few examples-- in school, in college. My first day of college. I'd been a Christian a few months. My anatomy professor, anatomy and physiology, first question he asked, is anybody here in my class a Christian?

I'm thinking, great. I have a kindred spirit. I have a soul mate. My professor's born again. I raise my hand. I'm the only one. And I'm thinking, well at least me and the Professor. He spent probably the next half of that class trying to debunk the whole idea of Christianity, especially creationism, and how he was going to dismantle that argument in the coming year. It was a giant. It was formidable.

Some of us face moral giants. Our society is redefining morality. I hear it-- in the last couple of weeks, I have heard more radio talk shows and television talk shows on how dare anybody try to take any moral high ground or draw a line in the sand of what is morality and what is immoral when it comes to certain issues, like marriage, singleness, homosexuality, heterosexuality, et cetera. Blurring the lines completely.

Some of you face personal giants. Might be a habit. Might be an addiction of some kind. Might be a relationship that you have at home or a handicap. And you feel like it controls the whole valley. Every day, it's there. It's voice is loud. You don't know what to do about it.

Well, if you let it go unchallenged, Paul talked about David running out to the valley to meet his enemy. If you let it go unchallenged, it's going to advance. We have to face it. We have to deal with it square on.

It was Edmund Burke that once said, all that is needed for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing. So we all have many kind of giants. Now, we just got a question on the internet that sort of fits this, and I want to answer it tonight because people are watching this live, and they try to interface with questions, sometimes before the service, sometimes during.

And the question is, what if our giant-- and I'm reading off the screen that I have up here. You can see it up on the screen. What if our giant problems are the very words from our spouse? Question from the internet. It was given anonymously, for obvious reasons.

Sometimes when I get questions like this, I just wish that there were more time, or the person was there, and I could sit down and discuss all of the background. But it's a good question. What if our giant problems are the very words from our spouse? That is, we're hearing their voice every day, and it's pushing us further down. It's debilitating us. We feel paralyzed by their attitudes in their words.

Well, let me just rephrase that. When I talk about overcoming problems, it doesn't mean that you have to vanquish or destroy or to look at your spouse as your enemy. Maybe the attitude is giant, and the attitude as an enemy. But I think the best example is the Lord Jesus Christ Himself.

He had lots of dissenters around Him. He had lots of voices. He was reviled, the Bible says. Those are strong words pounding against Him. But the Bible says, when Jesus was reviled, He didn't revile again. He didn't answer back. And what does Proverbs 15:1 say? A soft answer turns away wrath.

Now, I don't know what it's like to have a spouse, by words, make you feel lower every day. I've got a great wife who builds me up every single day. But I do remember what it was like to grow up with a father who was very domineering, very heavy-handed. And I felt like I could never please him, and he would just sort of say things that made me feel like I'm never going to make it. I'm never going to do good enough. I'm never going to be good as my brothers.

And I tried to fight that by trying to please him, and it didn't work. And it didn't work. Till one day, the Lord showed me. You're a born again Christian. Your Father needs to be. If you maintain the same attitude as your father, you're on his level. So go tell your father that you love him dearly.

Me? But he's offended me. Go tell him that you love him dearly, just like I stepped out of heaven when you didn't deserve it and told you that I love you dearly by dying for you on the cross. So I walked up to my dad when I saw him at home-- because he refused to come to my wedding. He wouldn't come to it. Because it wasn't in the church I grew up in.

And I felt hurt by that. So I walked up to him, and I said, Dad, I wish you would have been at my wedding. It would have meant more to me than anything to have your presence there. But I feel like I understand why you didn't come. Because of your spiritual convictions were strong enough that you would risk alienation to be in line with what you believe is the right thing. I admire a person who will live that way with his value system.

It hurt me, but I want you to know something. I forgive you. And I love you. And I put my arms around him and I hugged him, and he tightened up. And then he started crying. He said, that was beautiful.

And so every time I saw him, till the day he died, when he was about 80 years old, every time I saw him, I'd hug him, and I'd say, I love you. You know what happened about a year after that? He started hugging me and saying, Skip, I love you.

You can't fight that kind of love. So I say, fight a giant problem like that with giant love, because you have a giant God who loved you with giant love. And when you realized how much He loved you, that's what changes us, right? It's the goodness of God that leads us to repentance.

Well, let's take an example from our Lord, and let's love people like that. Is it easy? No. Did God ever say it would be easy? No. Verse 12. Go back to that.

We saw David's problem, that's Goliath. I want you to notice what I will call David's preparation. What gets him ready for being the king of Israel? What gets him ready for being a champion fighting Goliath?

Now, David was the son of that Ephrathite of Bethlehem, Judah, whose name was Jesse, and he had eight sons. The man was old, advanced in years. In the days of Saul, the three oldest sons of Jesse had gone to follow Saul to the battle. The names of the three sons who went to the battle, we were introduced to them last chapter, were Eliab the firstborn, next to him, Abinadab, And the third, Shamma.

David was the youngest, and the three oldest followed Saul. But David occasionally went and returned from Saul to feed his father's sheep at Bethlehem. Remember last week, Saul asked for David to come and work for him as a musician, as an armor bearer? So he would split up his time being with Saul and then going back to Bethlehem, about 15 miles away from where this is taking place, to work with his father's sheep.

And the Philistine drew near and presented himself 40 days, morning and evening, and Jesse said to his son David, take now for your brothers an ephah of this dried grain and these 10 loaves, and run to your brothers at the camp. And carry these 10 cheeses to the captain of their thousands and see how your brothers fare, and bring back news of them.

Now, Saul and they and all of the men of Israel were in the Valley of Elah fighting with the Philistines. Here's David's profile at this point. He's a shepherd. He's a musician slash armor bearer for Saul. He's a servant of his Father and his brothers, carrying stuff to the front lines.

See, in those days, the armies were different. They didn't give you the rations that they do today. You had to have somebody bringing food to the battle from the home front. And also, they didn't have CNN back then, so you didn't know who was winning the battle.

So somebody would go and bring food and kind of scope it out and say, well, what's the score? And he'd bring the score back home, and they would tell the village. Now, David's background was preparing him for his future responsibilities. His background was a musician.

He was a shepherd musician. He wrote many psalms, and he worshipped God. That prepared him for his future. He became the sweet Psalmist of Israel. He wrote a level of worship songs that would endure for generations. And still today, you read them. I read Psalms this morning. David's words, as the Shepherd of Israel, spoke to my heart and speak to our hearts today.

He was also a shepherd kid, which prepared him to lead people. Because you know, sheep and people are very similar in their traits and their habits. People who keep sheep have noted that.

He was a servant. He was a slave. He served Saul. He served his father. He served his brothers. All of that prepares him for being a servant, a public servant as king.

I don't know what ministry God has in store for you, but whatever it is, you're called to serve. I was speaking a day this week-- or not today, but this last week, to an FBI agent. And he's a believer. And some of the fellow agents, because this guy loves the Lord and preaches the gospel, they said, you know, you ought to be a preacher.

So he asked me about that. I said, no, you shouldn't be a preacher. You should be an FBI agent. Because how many FBI agents get to be among other FBI agents and the criminal element and the law enforcement element and share the gospel? You have a level of credibility I'll never have. God needs you right here. He's prepared you for this ministry. As a public servant.

So no matter what God has called us to do, we're all servants, right? We're called to serve people, serve God. I found a quote I wanted to share with you. I don't know who wrote it, but it's cool. So somebody cool wrote it. "We must realize that the symbol of Christianity is not a polished or beautifully polished cross, but a lopsided, crude, splintery cross over which is draped a towel. Not the lush, plush kind of towel that we buy for our guest bathroom, but a dirty old rag with the sweat and the dirt of men's feet."

That's Jesus. I know we like to wear crosses for jewelry. But if you want to be accurate, you'd get a beat-up, old piece of wood with bloodstains on it. That's the kind of servant that Jesus was. He served people, and so David does here.

Here's this kid, anointed as king, but he is still willing to serve. So his upbringing, God uses for the future. And I just want to say that no matter what you do, whether you're an engineer or you're you're a secretary, an office worker, a business person, all of that background that God has allowed you to go through or that you have gone through on your own, God is able to use for the future. It's all part of the package.

You have certain interests and hobbies and propensities. All of that God loves to use, like He did with David. Now, I'm going to take you to verse 26. Because something interesting happens. You think, OK. David's going to face this giant. Saul's going to be behind him, which he eventually is, and David's brothers are going to be behind him too. But they're not, because he gets persecuted in the midst of it.

David comes near the battle. He brings the grain. Brings the cheese. And he overhears the conversation. Verse 26. David spoke to the men who stood by him, saying, what shall be done for the man who kills this Philistine and takes away the reproach from Israel? For who is this uncircumcised Philistine?

I love this guy. I love this kid's heart. Who's this big lug who's not part of our covenant with God? This uncircumcised Philistine. That he should defy the armies of the living God? And the people answered him in this manner, saying, so shall it be done for the man who kills him.

Now Eliab, remember, that's number one son. His oldest brother heard when he spoke to the men, Eliab's anger was aroused against David, and he said, why did you come down here, and with whom have you left those few sheep, rubbing it in that I'm a soldier, and you are a lowly shepherd kid. Those few sheep in the wilderness.

I know your pride and the insolence of your heart, for you have come down now to see the battle. Why did he say that? We know why he said that. He's number one son. He was the first kid in line when Samuel came to the house in the last chapter to anoint the next king. And Jesse said, here's Eliab. They were all lined up.

And Samuel was impressed with him. He smiled. He said, this is it. The Lord's anointed. And God had to say, nope. I've rejected him. So he got all excited, and said, nope. Sorry.

Then he went to the next brother and the next brother, until finally, it was David. So he was the first one awaiting what he thought would be the kingdom. He was the first one to be rejected. And he's angry, no doubt about that. Jealous over his brother being the king.

And so he accuses David of being lazy. Coming just to watch. You've left the sheep. You've left your responsibilities. I think also something else. He is jealous of what he sees in David.

Everybody's afraid. Everybody's scared. We have Philistines! They're going to get us! This big Goliath guy, man! Listen to him! David comes up, and he goes, who's this uncircumcised Philistine? He's defying the armies of the living God.

He's exhibiting a level and intensity of faith that is absent in the group. And you know, I've found something to be true. People of intense faith can be intimidating. Have you ever been around somebody who just loves the Lord so much, and you feel a little convicted? Man, that guy's intense. That girl really loves the Lord. I need to be like that. I need to do that.

I have a good friend, in fact, he hopefully will come in August. His name is Sammy Dagger. He's over in Beirut, Lebanon as a pastor. I've traveled with him to Baghdad, Iraq. And I watched this guy witness to Muslims, to Arabs, to everybody. To the princess of Jordan. No fear.

And I love him dearly, but every time I'm with him, I'm convicted. Like, man, fill me, Lord, with that same level of spirit that's in this guy. I think that his brothers saw in him a level of trust in God, confidence in God, that showed them up spiritually. They didn't have. That nobody in all of Israel had that.

The guy that led me to the Lord, his name was David McCackeron. And I remember him coming to the high school with a Bible and a smile. And he'd tell everybody about Jesus. And I'd watched as people listened to David. They'd laugh at him. David didn't care.

They didn't want David, and David was one of the most popular guys in our high school. But after a while, he got shunned by everybody but didn't seem to care what people thought about him, because he knew he was pleasing the Lord, praying for people, leading them to Christ. He made an impression on me.

And I think that is exactly what his brothers are seeing in this guy. And David said to them, his reaction, verse 29, what have I done now? I bet he was picked on his whole life, don't you think? Is there not a cause?

And he turned from him toward another. And he said the same thing. And these people answered him as the first ones did. There's a lesson there. He talks to his brother, his brother accuses him of coming here for the wrong motivation and laziness.

Now, I probably would have wanted to punch Eliab right in the mouth. I think most brothers would. But David doesn't do that. He turns away from his brother and engages in a conversation with somebody else. He doesn't let it get to him. Doesn't engage. Doesn't fight.

A soft answer turns away wrath, but a fool will stir up strife and anger. David adhered to a very important principle. Here it is. A closed mouth gathers no feet.

Ever said something you regretted? You stuck your foot in your mouth, as we like to say? And you go, oh, man. It felt good, but I wish I wouldn't have said it. I wish I could take those words back, but I can't. They are long gone.

David didn't do that. He turned away. Let me just say that in life, there is going to be plenty of fights that you can fight. Choose your fighting carefully. Choose the right fight, whether it's in general, as a believer-- in the church, there's things worth fighting about, spiritually. There's other things that aren't.

I've seen too many churches divided over stupid stuff. Color of the carpet. Placing of the steeple. Et cetera, et cetera. In marriages, there might be issues that are important between husband and wife. Choose those very carefully. Choose them carefully.

I believe that many of God's people are so busy fighting each other brother to brother that they don't have enough energy to fight the real enemy. And Satan would love to have these guys so mad at each other, they wouldn't have any strength to fight the Philistines. , Just like I think the devil loves to have Christians take out their swords and beat each other up, so they have no energy to go against the attacks of Satan. So be very careful the fights that you choose.

There is a monastery in Germany. In Bobenhausen, Germany. And in this monastery, there are two sets of antlers that are interlocked together as one and mounted. The story goes that two deer got in a fight and rammed each other so hard that they couldn't break loose from the grip their antlers had, one with another. And they starved to death.

And so the monks took these antlers and put them over a doorway as a lesson. This is what happens. We will starve ourselves to death if we allow this kind of fighting rather than fighting the real enemy. It's a great little lesson. David turned away, engages with somebody else.

Go to verse 25. Now, here's David's perspective. We briefly talked about it. Go back to it. Surely he has come up to defy Israel. This is what the children of Israel are saying to him. They're saying, Goliath is defying us, Israel. And it shall be that the man who kills him, the king will enrich with great riches. He will give him his daughter and give him his father's house, exemption from taxes in Israel.

And David spoke to the men who stood by him, saying, what shall be done for the man who kills this Philistine and takes away the reproach from Israel? For who is this uncircumcised Philistine-- notice-- that he should defy the armies of the living God. You see the difference?

In verse 25, they say, this guy is defying Israel. David says, no. He's defying the armies of the living God. Do you see the difference? No, he's not just attacking an army. This guy is attacking God's people. And he realized a principle I want you and I to get tonight.

Whenever God's people are attacked, did you know that God takes it personally? You remember what God says about the children of Israel? Whoever touches you touches the apple of my eye. That's your eyeball.

Ever get dust in your eyeball? It's very annoying. You want to stop whatever that source is that would touch that eyeball. At all costs, you keep things away from your eye in protection.

Whoever touches you touches the apple of my eye, God said. Saul of Tarsus found that out before he was Paul the Apostle. He was out killing Christians on weekends for fun. Putting away this plague of Christianity from Jewish Jerusalem and Damascus and all of Israel.

He gets knocked off of his horse or donkey, whatever his Beast was, one day, on the road to Damascus. And a voice from heaven says, Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me? Not my people. Not those Christians. I'm taking this personally now, buckaroo. You're persecuting me. You're after me. You've touched my people, I'm one with my people. You've touched me. God takes it personally.

David knew that principle. This is why he had the perspective that he had and the faith that he had. Let's bring God into the picture. We're the people of God. We're the covenant people of God. He's defied the armies. And notice, the living God. That wasn't just a nice little spiritual adjective, living God, it sounds better.

I believe this was in direct contrast to the gods of the Philistines. Remember what they worship? Dagon, the fish God. Had the head of a fish, the body of a man. They worshipped Beelzebub, the Lord of the Flies. Literally the dung beetle.

So David is saying, these guys are worshipping flies that crawl on excrement. That's their gods. What an insult this is to me and to my God. They have defied the armies of the living and true God.

Now, in the next few verses, David is brought before Saul because Saul hears there's somebody who's willing to take this guy on. Verse 33, Saul said to David, as he looked at him, you're not able to go against this Philistine to fight with him, for you are a youth, and he is a man of war from his youth.

David said to Saul, your servant used to keep his father's sheep, and when a lion or a bear came and took a lamb out of the flock and went out after it and struck it and delivered the lamb from its mouth-- is that rain I am hearing? Praise the Lord. Our prayers have been answered.

[APPLAUSE]

May it continue all night and into tomorrow and the next night and all week.

[LAUGHTER]

David says, I came and struck it. I delivered the lamb from its mouth. And when it arose against me, I caught it by the beard and struck and killed it. Your servant killed both lion and bear, and this uncircumcised Philistine will be like one of them, seeing that he has defied the armies of the living God.

Moreover, David said, the Lord who delivered me from the paw of the lion and from the paw of the bear, He will deliver me from the hand of this Philistine. And Saul said to David, go, and the Lord be with you.

And notice all of the faith that Saul had. And see if this sounds familiar. David comes in. I hear you're the kid that says he's going to go up against Goliath. That's right. I'm going to do it. You can't do it. You're not able.

The first words out of Saul's mouth are words of unbelief. Now maybe David was tempted to say, you're right. I can't. See ya. I'm going back to Bethlehem now. It's easy to do that. People love to discourage.

But David says, now wait a minute. I am able to do it because of my background, my history. I used to do this with lions and bears. I'm a shepherd. And I have my staff, and I have my sling, and when these predators came in, I took care of them.

Now, here's the principle. Because David learned how to fight and win lesser battles, he's now able for this battle. You know how you say, oh Lord, I don't want any more trials. Actually, in reality, you do. Because when you get through this trial, it's going to prepare you for what's coming in five years, 10 years. It's coming in 5 and 10 years. It's going to come.

So you want to be prepared for that, and the trials of today are preparing you for the trials and the giants of tomorrow. You see, if you can handle the curriculum of lions and bears, you can't take Giants 101. You'll fail that course. But you can pass Giants 101 if you can pass Lions and Bears 101. David had done that. It was his past that prepared him for the present.

Now, look down at verse 41. Let me fill you in on what's gone on in these verses between them. Saul offers David his armor. David puts on Saul's armor, it doesn't fit. He's not mobile. It just-- it's not me, man. I can't wear your armor.

Because David's assets are his youth and his mobility. He had speed. He had agility. This armor, this defense mechanism, won't work. He takes it off. He knows that Goliath is big, but that means he's slow. David is fast.

Verse 41. The Philistine came and began drawing near to David, and the man who bore the shield went before him. So there's two out there. And when the Philistine looked about and saw David, he disdained him. For he, David was only a youth.

And notice how everybody is grading David on his age. Saul did. Samuel did. Jesse, his father did, and now his arch enemy did. You're just a kid. Ruddy and good looking. You know, if you're a soldier, you should at least look like a Hell's Angel or something.

And so the Philistine said to David, am I a dog, that you come out to me with sticks? Actually, I would answer that and say, well, yes. You are, actually. Because just like I fought off wild dogs, so to speak, when I was a shepherd, because they want to attack the flock. You've attacked the flock of God. So in that sense, you're like a wild dog that I'm about to dispose of. I'll let David say it.

The Philistine said to David, come to me, and I will give your flesh to the birds of the air and the beasts of the field. And David said to the Philistine, you come to me with a sword and a spear and a javelin, but I come to you in the name of-- notice this-- the Lord of Hosts, that is the Armies of Heaven, the God of the armies of Israel, whom you have defied.

This day, the Lord will deliver you into my hand, and I will strike you and take your head from you. And this day, I will give the carcasses of the camp of the Philistines to the birds of the air and the wild beasts of the earth, that all the Earth may know that there is a God in Israel. It's all for the glory of God.

Then all of this assembly shall know that the Lord does not save with sword and spear, for the battle is the Lord's. Bingo. That's the key verse of the passage. And He will give you into our hands.

So it was when the Philistine arose and came and drew near to meet David, that David hurried and ran toward the army to meet the Philistine. And David put out his hand in his bag, took out a stone, and he slung it and struck the Philistine in his forehead, so that the stone sank into his forehead, and he fell on his face to the earth.

He's dead. David takes his sword out, cuts his head off, takes it to Jerusalem as a memento. End of story. That's what the rest of the chapter says. We don't think about it, but imagine carrying a head with you, about 15 miles.

What you got in the bag, young man? Oh, just a head. Trying to get a head in life. I'm going to Jerusalem with it. This is our arch enemy, Goliath. And this is what God has done.

Compare the weapons. Compare the weapons. Compare the arsenal. OK. Let's see, Goliath. What do you got? OK. Well, you've got size. A lot of it. You've got strength. A lot of it.

You have a sword. You have a shield. You have a javelin. So what? On my side, I have the presence and the power of the living God, whom you have greatly bummed out.

Here's the perspective. The children of Israel saw the size of Goliath in comparison to their size. David saw the size of Goliath in comparison to the size of God. If you're over here, and you look at how big the giant is and how small we are, you go, whoa are we.

If you're over here, and you see how big Goliath is and how big your God is, you think, that poor giant. I feel so sorry for him. He's going to be headless in a few minutes. He's toast.

Because God is going to win this battle, and that's the difference in perspective. Greater is he, first John 4, that is in you than he that is in the world. Never forget that verse. First John chapter 4. Greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world.

So when you face the enemy next time, count your arsenal. The living God, if you're a Christian, if you're committed to Him, is inside of you. Living in you. Wanting to move through you. Greater than he who is in the world.

That's why Martin Luther said-- he crystallized this concept so well. With God, one is always a majority. Goliath, you're outnumbered, buddy. All you got is a little shield carrier. I got God on this side. You're dead meat.

Difference in perspective. So two men looked out in the valley one day. One saw a giant, the other saw his prey. Which perspective would you rather go into the battle with? Because the truth is, you're either in a battle, or you're going to be in one soon, and you'll have them the rest of your life.

Oh, I don't want to battle, you say. Tough. I want victory, you say. Think of the word victory. What does victory imply? You've won a battle. That's what the word means. You have to be in a battle to win it. So go with the right perspective. Let's pray.

Lord, as we close this chapter tonight, we are opening up to the possibility that with God, there is always a majority. Lord, this is a historical incident. It happened.

Lord, I pray that in our own lives, our own history, we would be able to look not to the size of the enemy, not to the size of the problem, not to the size of the issue or the people coming against us, the lawsuit, the personal loss. We would look at how incredibly able You are to do exceedingly, abundantly above all that we ask or think.

Thank you for that promise. And tonight, we, as your people, stand on it. And we take all of these giants that we're facing that are in the valley, and we give them over to you, Lord. You know what they are. We've talked to you many times about them. But tonight, we say, You're able. We trust You. And we thank You for this time in Jesus' name.